Katie Phillips, 44, from Crouch End, north London is a celebrity publicist. In February, she was diagnosed with a rare type of thyroid cancer and started a podcast, Talking with Cancer, as a means of sharing her experience. One of her recent guests was her mother, Marilyn Sheinman, a retired psychotherapist in her 70s.

Katie on Marilyn:

Growing up, Mum and I were definitely very close. My parents separated when I was quite young, so I remember a lot of times when it was just me, my brother and my mum or just me and my mum. Even when I was a little girl, we would just hang out, like friends really.
From a young age, I always felt like I wanted to mother her a bit. Knowing my parents were going through a divorce, I just wanted to make sure she was OK.

I didn’t tell my mum [about having cancer] for 24 hours. The doctors thought it was malignant, but didn’t understand what it was since it wasn’t the usual thyroid cancer. I couldn’t face telling my mum because I didn’t know exactly what was going on and I didn’t want to worry her.

Once she knew, she said to me: “My friend told me the worst part of all of this is when you first get told you have cancer.” In some ways, it’s true because when you are told this devastating news, there are so many emotions.

My mum admits that she is indecisive, whereas I’m not like that at all. I’m just like: “Right, let’s do something. Let’s just get on with it.” She’ll come to me for advice and I’ll tell her what I think she should do. That definitely was our dynamic for a long time. I use the past tense because that had to change for me when I got my diagnosis.

The changes are having boundaries in place. When something big happens to you, I think it’s important to assess what your needs are and to ask for those needs to be met. So I think the relationship’s changed in that I’m putting myself first in pretty much every scenario, and that’s largely to look after myself. There have been times when I have said: “Mum, I’m sorry you’re going through that, but I just can’t take it on.” Sometimes, it’s said with anger because I wish I could deal with it, but I just can’t. At the same time, I know this is a very difficult thing to go through as a mother.

We all also laugh a lot and my mum is really funny. Because I was staying with her when I started the podcast, there was a lot of material about her. Every week, I would say to Clair [ Whitefield, Katie’s co-host]: “You won’t believe what my mum said…” and these became known at “mum jokes”. Some listeners said to me that it would be really interesting to hear from my mum, so Clair has now done an interview with her.

The surgery time was [a] real challenge for me physically. I remember Mum turning up afterwards at my house, even though I had said not to come. I was angry because I was feeling so ill, but she was brilliant. She tidied up my kitchen, gave me a foot massage, brought me sunflowers and made me dinner. Later, she said to me: “I know you didn’t want me to come, but I’m really glad I did.” There are these little moments which are special and they are important because Mum also wants to feel like she can mother me.

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Katie and Marilyn and dogs (Photo: John Nguyen/JNVisuals)

Marilyn on Katie:

My earliest memory was when Katie shot out of the birth canal, literally. My first birth was a very long and laboured labour. But Katie’s was completely different, as is her personality.
We had someone called Nurse Evans who would come and visit us and guide us, and she said: “You are going to have a strong lady on your hands. She’s very determined. Mark my words.” That’s Katie. She was born in May and is a Taurean — focused and strong-minded. She was a joy as a little girl, a delight to bring up and as she’s got older, she’s kept her strength and her personality.

When I found out about Katie’s illness, I was devastated. It’s still heartbreaking. The first thing I thought was: “Why her? Why couldn’t it be me?” I would have done anything to swap places, anything in the world.

Everything is coloured by the cancer. When I see her and she’s looking good, I think: “She looks lovely.” Then I think: “But she’s got cancer.” I don’t think it’s easy to disentangle these thoughts, but Katie has handled [her illness] just brilliantly. She hasn’t sat in the corner saying: “Why me?”, which is an indication of her strength of character. I’m afraid that I rather depend on her to be upbeat as it lifts my spirits as well.

I would say our relationship has changed since Katie’s diagnosis. She’s always been a wonderful listener and very sensible. I used to chat to her about my problems and she’d often make comments. I would think: “That’s brilliant. That’s a good idea.” [Now] she doesn’t want to be burdened with any negative bits of me and I understand, so I try to keep it all very light-hearted. Anyway, I miss that very much, but we’re on a different level now.
I also don’t see her as much as I used to because she gets very tired very easily. She’s so gorgeous that I miss being with her, but I accept it.

I would like to find or start a group for mothers who’ve got an adult child, a daughter primarily, but it could be a son, with cancer. When your child’s grown-up, you think everything is going to be fine and suddenly, this comes along and there is only so much you can protect them from. I’m so used to making things better from when she was little, but I can’t make this better and I’ve got to accept that.

I’m very honoured that Katie wanted me on the podcast and that I had the opportunity to express myself. A lot of people don’t want to talk about cancer and I understand that, but I think for her and the people who are affected by it, Katie is definitely doing the right thing. She’s spreading the word rather than keeping it secret. I see that as a gift that not many people have. She’s blessed to have that gift and I’m blessed to be the mother of a daughter with that gift.

You can hear Katie’s podcast on: apple.com/gb/podcast/talking-with-cancer or her website talkingwithcancer.com

Katie Phillips and Marilyn Sheinman were talking to Gaby Wine